Mededeling

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Names of Portuguese M-frigates?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Tijd
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • j.sprong
    replied
    Alewijnse heeft met succes nieuwe multifunctionele consoles (MFC’s) opgeleverd aan boord van het M-fregat Bartolomeu Dias (F333), in opdracht van het Nederlandse Ministerie van Defensie. In de zomer van 2021 staat de oplevering van nieuwe bedieningsconsoles voor zusterschip Francisco de Almeida (F334) gepland.
    De schepen, voorheen respectievelijk Van Nes en Van Galen geheten, worden momenteel in Den Helder gemoderniseerd door de Defensie Materieel Organisatie (DMO) en de Directie Maritieme Instandhouding (DMI) van het Commando Zee Strijd Krachten (CZSK). Daarbij is systeem integrator Alewijnse ingeschakeld voor het ontwerpen, bouwen, monteren en inbedrijfstellen van de multifunctionele consoles, de auxiliary control units van de commandocentrale (CoCe) en een compleet nieuwe Radio Room Console (RRC).
    “De multifunctionele consoles (MFC’s) vervangen de General Operating Stations (GOS) in de commandocentrale (CoCe), het operationele hart van de schepen, legt Alewijnse projectleider Perry Eikelenboom uit. “Daar wordt alle sensordata gepresenteerd en geanalyseerd, en kan vervolgens worden besloten om over te gaan tot wapeninzet. De nieuwe MFC’s zijn veelzijdiger en gebruiksvriendelijker dan de oude GOS, waardoor de effectiviteit van de operators sterk wordt vergroot. Met oog op redundantie wordt het basisontwerp van de MFC’s zoveel mogelijk gelijk gehouden, zodat een operator eenvoudig van console kan wisselen in het geval van een defect.”
    Vóór de officiële overdracht van de bedieningspanelen voerde Alewijnse diverse controles uit, zoals een intensieve simulatie voor schok- en hittebestendigheid en diverse afnametesten. Deze werkzaamheden vonden plaats op de werf van de Koninklijke Marine in Den Helder, waar Alewijnse zorgde voor plaatsing, inbedrijfstelling en afnametesten in de haven.
    Bartolomeu Dias (F333) en Francisco de Almeida (F334) vierden in 2019 hun vijfentwintigste verjaardag en renovatiewerkzaamheden zijn noodzakelijk om de schepen tot in de jaren dertig in de vaart te houden. De Portugese zeemacht heeft het groot onderhoud van de twee fregatten in Den Helder ondergebracht, omdat beide schepen in Nederland zijn gebouwd en alle noodzakelijke expertise en faciliteiten voor een dergelijk complex project direct beschikbaar zijn op de werf van de Koninklijke Marine in Den Helder.

    Bron: maritimetechnology. ( 7 april 2021 ).

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    just as a curiosity the previous "Bartolomeu Dias" was sistership of the "Afonso de Albuquerque", sunk in Goa in December 1961, during the Invasion of "Portuguese India" by Indian Forces

    here is a small photo of the previous "B. Dias"
    --
    bartolomeudian150jpgvh2.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Joosten
    replied
    "Willem Cool" wrote: The phrase "Decommissioned" is in fact a translation error from the RNN, it should be "out of active service".

    In th '60s and '70s this was done many times with the minesweepers and PCE frigates.
    There were a lot of ships in that time who were placed on a inactive status and stayed for a period of time in motballswith the "reserve-fleet" at the "Miljoenenhoek" in Den Helder, until they were required again, or permanently were removed from the Fleetlist (sold or scrapped).

    A lot of writers, journalists and gouverment officials use the translation "Decommissioned" for both options, so there can be a little confusion about the status of a navy-ship due to this.

    Therefore, for example, a ship can be "Decommissioned" and "Recommissioned" several times during her lifetime in the same navy.
    You are quite right Willem and I maintain this is true both in Dutch and in English. "Uitdienststellen" (=decommissioning) is not the same as "van de sterkte afvoeren" (remove from the force). Van Nes, like her predecessors being sold, has indeed been decommissioned and "uitdienstgesteld" as can be told from the fact the pennant (oorlogswimpel) is removed and the nameplates are cut up with the letters going to the former CO's. However, the ship is still part of the RNLN force (deel van de sterkte) until the actual (legal!) transfer to the new owners. The criterion for legal technicalities (e.g. to prevent the ship being seized by a third party to resolve financial disputes with the future owner as was tried with I think Chile) is whether or not the vessel is still part of the force or not. The status of being decommissioned or not isn't relevant there, but in some cases this has been mistakenly communicated as such and I think this could be the cause of Rich's interpretation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    I'ts Official, the Van Nes will be re-christned NRP BARTOLOMEU DIAS

    from New Year Message of the PN Commander-in-Chief (sorry, in Portuguese only)

    Neste ano, temos que preparar guarnições para as duas fragatas da futura classe "Bartolomeu Dias" cuja primeira unidade vamos aumentar ao efectivo em Dezembro
    http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_ ... pag_5.html

    http://www.answers.com/topic/bartolomeu-dias

    Portuguese discoverer of the Cape of Good Hope






    A very good choice in My Opinion!!!!
    --
    bartolomeudias.gif

    Leave a comment:


  • Willem Cool
    replied
    The phrase "Decommissioned" is in fact a translation error from the RNN, it should be "out of active service".

    In th '60s and '70s this was done many times with the minesweepers and PCE frigates.
    There were a lot of ships in that time who were placed on a inactive status and stayed for a period of time in motballswith the "reserve-fleet" at the "Miljoenenhoek" in Den Helder, until they were required again, or permanently were removed from the Fleetlist (sold or scrapped).

    A lot of writers, journalists and gouverment officials use the translation "Decommissioned" for both options, so there can be a little confusion about the status of a navy-ship due to this.

    Therefore, for example, a ship can be "Decommissioned" and "Recommissioned" several times during her lifetime in the same navy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    Well, I have noticed that in pictures taken to the Leopold I for Belgium (and also the picture of the Van Nes arriving at Den Helder posted on the navysite, where you can see the Louise Marie) as well on pics taken of the Almirante Riveros before transfer, they still hoist the Dutch Flag, so I assume that means they are not "decommisioned" as a fact...right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rich
    replied
    Paul, I can explain why our PR guys wrote this. After reading your comment before, including the article in on the RNLN site, I wrote an e-mail to the site-manager. After a day I received an e-mail from the XO of the van Nes. He explained that the ship calls this a decommissioning due to the fact that the last deployment was also the very last operational active duty of the van Nes.
    In fact the ship was not officially decommissioned as this is not up to the CO of the ship, but can only be done as ordered from higher up on the ladder. Too bad our PR-guys don't keep to the facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Joosten
    replied
    "Rich" wrote: Paul & Stonewall,
    Sure I can tell you how I know the van Nes will not be and the Zaan has not been decommissioned. Except for the Karel Doorman I worked, work or will work on all of these M-frigates that have been sold.

    The first ship that was sold, the Abraham van der Hulst (now Almirante Blanco Encalada) was decommissioned and sold long after that happened. Recommissioned in the RNLN at the end of it's maintenance period and again decommissioned on the day of transfer to the Chilean Navy (dec 15, 2005).

    The second M-frigate, the Tjerk Hiddes (now Almirante Riveros) was officially decommissioned in feb 2006. In that period a large Dutch tourist company (forgot the name) was entangled in a very long going lawsuit about a lot of money. This Dutch firm was undertaking steps to seize all Chilean property and funds in the Netherlands to gain some leverage in the lawsuit. The Dutch navy did not want to get involved in this matter, so to make it clear to everyone that the Tjerk Hiddes was still Dutch property she was silently recommissioned! No ceremony, just the RNLN project officer who gave the RNLN duty-officer on the Hiddes the order to raise the war-pennant again. How I know? I was the duty-officer that day :-D .

    The reason why we used to decommission these kind of ships was just for administrative reasons. RNLN ships have a UKC (for the outsiders: kind of budget reference number) to which all costs of operation are accounted. After decommissioning these ships would get a new UKC to make the bookkeeping easy. After the Hiddes that procedure was deemed to be unnecessary. Instead of decommissioning, a date was chosen to just switch UKC's. This simplified procedure also takes care of other legal issues.

    Paul, as a fellow RNLN-officer you know as well as I do that the people that maintain our RNLN site also make mistakes so I wouldn't count on them as the most reliable source. There's so much going on that they can't possibly update everything on time.
    On 20 december 2007 command of the van Nes will be transferred from KLTZ Sillevis-Smit to KTZ Wijbrands. Directly after that the van Nes will move to the naval dockyard to commence her maintenance period. The van Nes will not be decommissioned.
    You could have been right Rich but apparently our employer's PR guys believe different:

    "www.marine.nl" wrote:
    'Hr.Ms. Van Nes uit dienst gesteld'
    21-12-2007

    Op 20 december 2007 is Hr.Ms. Van Nes te Den Helder in aanwezigheid van de doopster, mevrouw van der Voort, uit dienst gesteld. Bij de uitdienststelling waren traditie getrouw alle oud-commandanten en chef der equipages die hebben gediend op Hr.Ms. Van Nes aanwezig. Na afloop van de ceremonie kregen de oud-commandanten een letter van het naambord mee ter herinnering.

    Hr.Ms. Van Nes, een multi-pupose fregat van de Karel Doorman klasse was 1992 gedoopt en twee jaar later in dienst gesteld. In de afgelopen 15 jaren heeft het fregat veel wereldzeeën bevaren en is ondermeer ingezet geweest in de Persische Golf voor de internationale strijd tegen het terrorisme en voor drugsbestrijdingsoperaties in het Caraibisch gebied. Recent heeft zij in Nicaraqua hulp geboden aan locale bevolking die vanwege orkaan Felix in nood verkeerde.

    Hr.Ms. Van Nes wordt nu verkoop gereed gemaakt en vervolgens overgedragen aan Portugal. Deze overdracht maakt deel uit van de verkoop van vier Nederlandse fregatten aan Belgie en Portugal waarmee uiteindelijk de financiele ruimte is gecreerd voor de bouw van van de Ocean Patrol Vessels (OPV's). Tegelijkertijd met de uitdienststelling van Hr.Ms. Van Nes in Den Helder is vandaag bij Thales het contract getekend voor de bouw van de OPV's.
    For Stonewall: uit dienst gesteld is Dutch for decommissioned....

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    Dear Rich

    Thanks a lot for your clarifications on the matter :D

    Always good to get information from people who really knows what they are talking about


    Please take good care of Her (Van Nes)

    Leave a comment:


  • Rich
    replied
    Paul & Stonewall,
    Sure I can tell you how I know the van Nes will not be and the Zaan has not been decommissioned. Except for the Karel Doorman I worked, work or will work on all of these M-frigates that have been sold.

    The first ship that was sold, the Abraham van der Hulst (now Almirante Blanco Encalada) was decommissioned and sold long after that happened. Recommissioned in the RNLN at the end of it's maintenance period and again decommissioned on the day of transfer to the Chilean Navy (dec 15, 2005).

    The second M-frigate, the Tjerk Hiddes (now Almirante Riveros) was officially decommissioned in feb 2006. In that period a large Dutch tourist company (forgot the name) was entangled in a very long going lawsuit about a lot of money. This Dutch firm was undertaking steps to seize all Chilean property and funds in the Netherlands to gain some leverage in the lawsuit. The Dutch navy did not want to get involved in this matter, so to make it clear to everyone that the Tjerk Hiddes was still Dutch property she was silently recommissioned! No ceremony, just the RNLN project officer who gave the RNLN duty-officer on the Hiddes the order to raise the war-pennant again. How I know? I was the duty-officer that day :-D .

    The reason why we used to decommission these kind of ships was just for administrative reasons. RNLN ships have a UKC (for the outsiders: kind of budget reference number) to which all costs of operation are accounted. After decommissioning these ships would get a new UKC to make the bookkeeping easy. After the Hiddes that procedure was deemed to be unnecessary. Instead of decommissioning, a date was chosen to just switch UKC's. This simplified procedure also takes care of other legal issues.

    Paul, as a fellow RNLN-officer you know as well as I do that the people that maintain our RNLN site also make mistakes so I wouldn't count on them as the most reliable source. There's so much going on that they can't possibly update everything on time.
    On 20 december 2007 command of the van Nes will be transferred from KLTZ Sillevis-Smit to KTZ Wijbrands. Directly after that the van Nes will move to the naval dockyard to commence her maintenance period. The van Nes will not be decommissioned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Folkert
    replied
    Friday HNLMS Van Nes arrives at 141207 Den Helder .........Hr.Ms. Van Nes VTA Den Helder


    --
    HNLMS Van Nes F-833.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Joosten
    replied
    "Stonewall" wrote: Can you translate that sentence in red, please....?

    My pleasure: "In a short while she (HNLMS Van Nes) will return to The Netherlands where immediately upon arrival she will be decommissioned."

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    Can you translate that sentence in red, please....?




    Rich, can you please check here:
    http://www.dutchfleet.net/viewtopic.php?p=18573#18573

    At the time it was officially anounced "decomissioning for Portugal" (1 or 2 days after corrected to Belgium, I remember at the time the Navy Site said Portugal and the Defense Ministry said Belgium , or vice-versa, I have print-screens of both but I still have not find them...)

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Joosten
    replied
    "Rich" wrote: Paul, both ships will not be decommissioned before the day of the transfer. Just like the Karel Doorman and the Willem van der Zaan they will remain commissioned untill that day.

    The van Nes will arrive in Den Helder on friday 14th december.

    As it looks now, according to the planning and wishes of the Portuguese navy, the transfer will take place at the end of november 2008 instead of in december. Personally I think that will prove to be a very tough date to meet with the extra work (modifications) that is requested by the Portuguese navy.

    Rich I don't know where you got that information but below is a quote from the official RNLN website and look for the 29 November message of Van Nes:

    "www.marine.nl/nieuws" wrote:
    Stijlvolle afsluiting Goede Doel project Hr. Ms. Van Nes
    29-11-2007


    Hr. Ms. Van Nes heeft maandag 26 november haar goede doel project bij de scholengemeenschap Kolegio Chaya Willems afgesloten. De afsluiting viel samen met de weekopening van de school. De leerlingen en schoolleiding brachten tijdens deze gebeurtenis hun dank over aan de bemanning en het thuisfront van de Van Nes. LTZ Anne Moggré van de Goede Doel commissie: "Het was een indrukwekkende ceremonie met al die kinderen die ons toezongen!"


    2007-11-29_stijlvolle_afsluiting_goede_doel_project_hrms_van_nes1.jpg



    Tijdens haar periode als stationsschip heeft de Van Nes het Kolegio Chaya Willems geadopteerd en actief gesteund. Er is veel geld ingezameld, er zijn werkzaamheden op de school verricht, er is lesmateriaal en computers uit Nederland overgebracht en leerlingen van Chaya Willems hebben een tegenbezoek aan het schip gebracht. Het ingezamelde bedrag was ca. Euro 4500,- en is uitgegeven aan waterkoelers, bankjes voor op het schoolplein en enkele infrastructurele aanpassingen. Door deze activiteiten is een warme en hechte band ontstaan tussen de school en het schip.


    2007-11-29_stijlvolle_afsluiting_goede_doel_project_hrms_van_nes2.jpg



    Hr. Ms. Van Nes nadert inmiddels het einde van haar periode als stationsschip. Binnenkort zal zij terugkeren naar Nederland waar zij direct na aankomst uit dienst wordt gesteld. Komend jaar wordt het schip verkoopgereed gemaakt en zal eind 2008 worden overgedragen aan Portugal.

    Als stationsschip heeft de Van Nes een actieve bijdrage geleverd aan de veiligheid rondom de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba en elders in de Caribische regio. De meest in het oog springende inzet vond plaats afgelopen september. Na passage van de orkaan Felix heeft het schip noodhulp verleend in het getroffen gebied in Nicaragua. Daarnaast heeft het schip onlangs Kustwachttaken uitgevoerd nabij bovenwindse eilanden, waar haar aanwezigheid en scherpe controle van alle scheepvaart niet ongemerkt bleef. Verder heeft de Van Nes deelgenomen aan de bilaterale oefening VENHOL met Venezuela waarbij de banden met het buurland werden aangehaald.

    Defensie is verantwoordelijk voor de verdediging van het Koninkrijk inclusief de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De Koninklijke Marine geeft invulling aan deze taak middels een permanente aanwezigheid van mensen en materieel op de eilanden. Verder stationeert de Koninklijke Marine ieder half jaar een schip ter plaatse, het stationsschip. De taken van het stationsschip zijn:

    Externe verdediging van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba, inclusief het onderhouden van relaties met de buurlanden ("vlagvertoon");
    Uitvoeren van Kustwachttaken voor de Kustwacht van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba;
    Leveren van noodhulp en militaire bijstand, zowel aan de landen van het Koninkrijk als elders in de regio;
    Uitvoeren van internationale drugsbestrijdingsoperaties in de gehele Caribische regio onder Amerikaanse leiding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall
    replied
    "Rich" wrote: Paul, both ships will not be decommissioned before the day of the transfer. Just like the Karel Doorman and the Willem van der Zaan they will remain commissioned untill that day.

    ...
    But wasn't the Van der Zaan officially decomissioned? That news came out from the Navy Offcial Site and Dutch Defense Ministry site.... I remember that news, I have it somewhere...

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X