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Names of Portuguese M-frigates?

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  • #16
    "Rich" wrote: Paul & Stonewall,
    Sure I can tell you how I know the van Nes will not be and the Zaan has not been decommissioned. Except for the Karel Doorman I worked, work or will work on all of these M-frigates that have been sold.

    The first ship that was sold, the Abraham van der Hulst (now Almirante Blanco Encalada) was decommissioned and sold long after that happened. Recommissioned in the RNLN at the end of it's maintenance period and again decommissioned on the day of transfer to the Chilean Navy (dec 15, 2005).

    The second M-frigate, the Tjerk Hiddes (now Almirante Riveros) was officially decommissioned in feb 2006. In that period a large Dutch tourist company (forgot the name) was entangled in a very long going lawsuit about a lot of money. This Dutch firm was undertaking steps to seize all Chilean property and funds in the Netherlands to gain some leverage in the lawsuit. The Dutch navy did not want to get involved in this matter, so to make it clear to everyone that the Tjerk Hiddes was still Dutch property she was silently recommissioned! No ceremony, just the RNLN project officer who gave the RNLN duty-officer on the Hiddes the order to raise the war-pennant again. How I know? I was the duty-officer that day :-D .

    The reason why we used to decommission these kind of ships was just for administrative reasons. RNLN ships have a UKC (for the outsiders: kind of budget reference number) to which all costs of operation are accounted. After decommissioning these ships would get a new UKC to make the bookkeeping easy. After the Hiddes that procedure was deemed to be unnecessary. Instead of decommissioning, a date was chosen to just switch UKC's. This simplified procedure also takes care of other legal issues.

    Paul, as a fellow RNLN-officer you know as well as I do that the people that maintain our RNLN site also make mistakes so I wouldn't count on them as the most reliable source. There's so much going on that they can't possibly update everything on time.
    On 20 december 2007 command of the van Nes will be transferred from KLTZ Sillevis-Smit to KTZ Wijbrands. Directly after that the van Nes will move to the naval dockyard to commence her maintenance period. The van Nes will not be decommissioned.
    You could have been right Rich but apparently our employer's PR guys believe different:

    "www.marine.nl" wrote:
    'Hr.Ms. Van Nes uit dienst gesteld'
    21-12-2007

    Op 20 december 2007 is Hr.Ms. Van Nes te Den Helder in aanwezigheid van de doopster, mevrouw van der Voort, uit dienst gesteld. Bij de uitdienststelling waren traditie getrouw alle oud-commandanten en chef der equipages die hebben gediend op Hr.Ms. Van Nes aanwezig. Na afloop van de ceremonie kregen de oud-commandanten een letter van het naambord mee ter herinnering.

    Hr.Ms. Van Nes, een multi-pupose fregat van de Karel Doorman klasse was 1992 gedoopt en twee jaar later in dienst gesteld. In de afgelopen 15 jaren heeft het fregat veel wereldzeeën bevaren en is ondermeer ingezet geweest in de Persische Golf voor de internationale strijd tegen het terrorisme en voor drugsbestrijdingsoperaties in het Caraibisch gebied. Recent heeft zij in Nicaraqua hulp geboden aan locale bevolking die vanwege orkaan Felix in nood verkeerde.

    Hr.Ms. Van Nes wordt nu verkoop gereed gemaakt en vervolgens overgedragen aan Portugal. Deze overdracht maakt deel uit van de verkoop van vier Nederlandse fregatten aan Belgie en Portugal waarmee uiteindelijk de financiele ruimte is gecreerd voor de bouw van van de Ocean Patrol Vessels (OPV's). Tegelijkertijd met de uitdienststelling van Hr.Ms. Van Nes in Den Helder is vandaag bij Thales het contract getekend voor de bouw van de OPV's.
    For Stonewall: uit dienst gesteld is Dutch for decommissioned....
    "Try and leave this world a little better than you found it" [Baden Powell]
    "Verbeter de wereld, begin bij jezelf"... [algemeen]
    ..."maar stop daarna niet en help ook een ander op weg!" [Paul Joosten]
    https://duurzamehuizenroute.nl/wonin...s-1905-veendam

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    • #17
      Paul, I can explain why our PR guys wrote this. After reading your comment before, including the article in on the RNLN site, I wrote an e-mail to the site-manager. After a day I received an e-mail from the XO of the van Nes. He explained that the ship calls this a decommissioning due to the fact that the last deployment was also the very last operational active duty of the van Nes.
      In fact the ship was not officially decommissioned as this is not up to the CO of the ship, but can only be done as ordered from higher up on the ladder. Too bad our PR-guys don't keep to the facts.

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      • #18
        Well, I have noticed that in pictures taken to the Leopold I for Belgium (and also the picture of the Van Nes arriving at Den Helder posted on the navysite, where you can see the Louise Marie) as well on pics taken of the Almirante Riveros before transfer, they still hoist the Dutch Flag, so I assume that means they are not "decommisioned" as a fact...right?

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        • #19
          The phrase "Decommissioned" is in fact a translation error from the RNN, it should be "out of active service".

          In th '60s and '70s this was done many times with the minesweepers and PCE frigates.
          There were a lot of ships in that time who were placed on a inactive status and stayed for a period of time in motballswith the "reserve-fleet" at the "Miljoenenhoek" in Den Helder, until they were required again, or permanently were removed from the Fleetlist (sold or scrapped).

          A lot of writers, journalists and gouverment officials use the translation "Decommissioned" for both options, so there can be a little confusion about the status of a navy-ship due to this.

          Therefore, for example, a ship can be "Decommissioned" and "Recommissioned" several times during her lifetime in the same navy.
          Groetjes uit Zeeland,

          Willem Cool

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          • #20
            I'ts Official, the Van Nes will be re-christned NRP BARTOLOMEU DIAS

            from New Year Message of the PN Commander-in-Chief (sorry, in Portuguese only)

            Neste ano, temos que preparar guarnições para as duas fragatas da futura classe "Bartolomeu Dias" cuja primeira unidade vamos aumentar ao efectivo em Dezembro
            http://www.marinha.pt/extra/revista/ra_ ... pag_5.html

            http://www.answers.com/topic/bartolomeu-dias

            Portuguese discoverer of the Cape of Good Hope






            A very good choice in My Opinion!!!!
            --
            bartolomeudias.gif

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            • #21
              "Willem Cool" wrote: The phrase "Decommissioned" is in fact a translation error from the RNN, it should be "out of active service".

              In th '60s and '70s this was done many times with the minesweepers and PCE frigates.
              There were a lot of ships in that time who were placed on a inactive status and stayed for a period of time in motballswith the "reserve-fleet" at the "Miljoenenhoek" in Den Helder, until they were required again, or permanently were removed from the Fleetlist (sold or scrapped).

              A lot of writers, journalists and gouverment officials use the translation "Decommissioned" for both options, so there can be a little confusion about the status of a navy-ship due to this.

              Therefore, for example, a ship can be "Decommissioned" and "Recommissioned" several times during her lifetime in the same navy.
              You are quite right Willem and I maintain this is true both in Dutch and in English. "Uitdienststellen" (=decommissioning) is not the same as "van de sterkte afvoeren" (remove from the force). Van Nes, like her predecessors being sold, has indeed been decommissioned and "uitdienstgesteld" as can be told from the fact the pennant (oorlogswimpel) is removed and the nameplates are cut up with the letters going to the former CO's. However, the ship is still part of the RNLN force (deel van de sterkte) until the actual (legal!) transfer to the new owners. The criterion for legal technicalities (e.g. to prevent the ship being seized by a third party to resolve financial disputes with the future owner as was tried with I think Chile) is whether or not the vessel is still part of the force or not. The status of being decommissioned or not isn't relevant there, but in some cases this has been mistakenly communicated as such and I think this could be the cause of Rich's interpretation.
              "Try and leave this world a little better than you found it" [Baden Powell]
              "Verbeter de wereld, begin bij jezelf"... [algemeen]
              ..."maar stop daarna niet en help ook een ander op weg!" [Paul Joosten]
              https://duurzamehuizenroute.nl/wonin...s-1905-veendam

              Reactie


              • #22
                just as a curiosity the previous "Bartolomeu Dias" was sistership of the "Afonso de Albuquerque", sunk in Goa in December 1961, during the Invasion of "Portuguese India" by Indian Forces

                here is a small photo of the previous "B. Dias"
                --
                bartolomeudian150jpgvh2.jpg

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                • #23
                  Alewijnse heeft met succes nieuwe multifunctionele consoles (MFC’s) opgeleverd aan boord van het M-fregat Bartolomeu Dias (F333), in opdracht van het Nederlandse Ministerie van Defensie. In de zomer van 2021 staat de oplevering van nieuwe bedieningsconsoles voor zusterschip Francisco de Almeida (F334) gepland.
                  De schepen, voorheen respectievelijk Van Nes en Van Galen geheten, worden momenteel in Den Helder gemoderniseerd door de Defensie Materieel Organisatie (DMO) en de Directie Maritieme Instandhouding (DMI) van het Commando Zee Strijd Krachten (CZSK). Daarbij is systeem integrator Alewijnse ingeschakeld voor het ontwerpen, bouwen, monteren en inbedrijfstellen van de multifunctionele consoles, de auxiliary control units van de commandocentrale (CoCe) en een compleet nieuwe Radio Room Console (RRC).
                  “De multifunctionele consoles (MFC’s) vervangen de General Operating Stations (GOS) in de commandocentrale (CoCe), het operationele hart van de schepen, legt Alewijnse projectleider Perry Eikelenboom uit. “Daar wordt alle sensordata gepresenteerd en geanalyseerd, en kan vervolgens worden besloten om over te gaan tot wapeninzet. De nieuwe MFC’s zijn veelzijdiger en gebruiksvriendelijker dan de oude GOS, waardoor de effectiviteit van de operators sterk wordt vergroot. Met oog op redundantie wordt het basisontwerp van de MFC’s zoveel mogelijk gelijk gehouden, zodat een operator eenvoudig van console kan wisselen in het geval van een defect.”
                  Vóór de officiële overdracht van de bedieningspanelen voerde Alewijnse diverse controles uit, zoals een intensieve simulatie voor schok- en hittebestendigheid en diverse afnametesten. Deze werkzaamheden vonden plaats op de werf van de Koninklijke Marine in Den Helder, waar Alewijnse zorgde voor plaatsing, inbedrijfstelling en afnametesten in de haven.
                  Bartolomeu Dias (F333) en Francisco de Almeida (F334) vierden in 2019 hun vijfentwintigste verjaardag en renovatiewerkzaamheden zijn noodzakelijk om de schepen tot in de jaren dertig in de vaart te houden. De Portugese zeemacht heeft het groot onderhoud van de twee fregatten in Den Helder ondergebracht, omdat beide schepen in Nederland zijn gebouwd en alle noodzakelijke expertise en faciliteiten voor een dergelijk complex project direct beschikbaar zijn op de werf van de Koninklijke Marine in Den Helder.

                  Bron: maritimetechnology. ( 7 april 2021 ).
                  Vriendelijke groet, Hans.

                  "Om de kracht van het anker te voelen moet men de storm trotseren". (Pas als je iets ernstig meemaakt, weet je op wie je kan vertrouwen).

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