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Loss of submarine O-22

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  • Loss of submarine O-22

    On your web site, it is stated that the wreck of O-22 does not display any damage from a mine. How close was the examination made? I believe there were no minefields in the vicinity and this is why her loss is attributed to a drifting mine, possibly from the German field no.19. However if she was submerged at the time then this cause is probably unlikely. The position of her wreck does indicate that the loss occurred while on patrol and not in transit as implied in the text, an accidental loss appears to be a distinct possibility probably in the evening of 13 November or later.

    Platon

  • #2
    I've seen the video footage from the Norwegian submersible myself -allthough I must admit that it was several years ago- and I can't remember having seen damage that indicated a mine explosion. On the other hand, I can't remember either that I've seen the entire boat. For example, parts of the port side of the bow were not filmed. And it wasn't like the boat had gone down yesterday. Lots of rubble, debris, fishingnets and the fact that it had sunk into the bottom somewhat obscured several parts of the boat.

    I may even have a copy of the tape at home. Perhaps I can digitize it and have Bram place it at the new video site of this forum. But I'm a bit busy at the moment with other things, and digitizing a one hour VHS-tape will take some time. So please be patient...

    Leon.
    Daily flogging will continue until the crew's morale improves...!

    Reactie


    • #3
      Hello Leon,

      Many thanks for your answer. I look forward to the video but there is no rush. I believe that O-22 may have carried out a torpedo attack on 13.11.1940, could an error in drill have caused a torpedo explosion? O-23 reported an explosion from her direction at about the same time as this attack and this may have been O-22.

      Best regards,

      Platon

      Reactie


      • #4
        O-22

        Platon Alexiades wrote: "...an accidental loss appears to be a distinct possibility probably in the evening of 13 November or later."

        "Forgive me if I don't get it correctly" but this sentence sounds quite like a "mystery" to me.... What do you mean as an accidental loss?

        Kind regards,
        Tom

        P.S. Regarding the video.... It would be great to see this wreck. I'm linking my and others (I guess) interest towards a video recorded also in 1993 by ROV on the North Sea. The person who was present when the movie was displayed "frame by frame" on a Norwegian vessel believes, it was the Polish ORP "Orzel". It would be interesting to check whether or not a "mistake" could be made...

        Reactie


        • #5
          Hi T.K.

          The video you are mentioning about ORP Orzel, could it be this:

          quote:
          " Let me then shortly describe the event: the m/v Northern Horizon
          cruised on the North Sea its oil fields. Her tasks covered i. a. checking the pipelines freshly-laid on the sea bed from one Large Barge (I don't remember her no.): a large barge indeed full of pipes and Polish welders). The ship disposed i. a. over the ”Arovi" - a small submersible craft on wheels to embrace the pipe and go forwards kilometer after kilometer; if anything occurred, the video casette with the recorded path was transported to the survey ships, responsible for production. They were generally fitted with helicopters. I transported our casette to the survey and had to wait for documents. The weather was OK we went alongside and they invited us for coffee. In a room aboard ran the casette from earlier days; the crew of the ship watched the pictures one by one, running at reduced tape speed; they watched a submarine lying on the sea bed.
          I saw the eye of the camera scan the submarine its deck from port to starboard.
          I noticed big bull-eye windows on the sail, and one small structure before it being actually its part. There was no cannon on the fore deck as if on a U-Boat. She lay on her keel listing some 5 degrees to starboard. I do not want to speculate about the Orzel, but the shape of the sail of that wreck was gently angled and there was a rectangular opening without any manhole. As I handed over my casette to them, they switched their device off and changed the casette. I asked them where had they their casette from? Their answer was that it was ”recorded earlier that day". The ship preceded us checking the sea bed for obstacles. They said as well, that the wreck did not lie in the way of the pipeline. The location of that wreck is not known to me. The pipeline went from the Norse coast down to Germany along Jutland peninsula."
          unquote.

          If this is what you are referring to, I think this is a hoax. Why? Well, I did checked this out, checked ALL pipelines running towards Germany and those pipelines are situated on the eastside of the border that allied vessels where not allowed to cross during WW 2.
          There is a second reason why I think this is a hoax, the observer describes very nicely the conningtower, but then he 'forgets' the streamline covering of the deckgun and the gunbarrel itself.
          Also I checked the movie "ORP Orzel" made in Poland in 1958, the vessel used for this movie was Orzel's sister ORP Sep.
          Sep's deckgun was removed after the war when she returned from being interned in Sweden, the streamline covering was also removed and the deckgun was replaced by a russian gun. When you see the movie it is not hard to notice the doors in the conningtower (Rectangular opening).

          Ofcourse I could be mistaken, if someone has stronger and perhaps better evidence, please do not hesitate to contact me.

          regards,

          Paul Konings

          Reactie


          • #6
            Hi Paul,

            Indeed, I am referring the video to the story above... :D It's really hard to say....
            From my perspective it's impossible to be confident where it is exactly because as it says:...the movie was recorded "early today".... As I was told, the person saw that movie in the afternoon hours. He did not work on this ship so he couldn't be certain the movie comes from the scanned bottom of the project he worked on. The vessel could be on a different contract several or even few hours before he made a visit onto it....

            Kind regards,
            Tom

            Reactie


            • #7
              Re: O-22

              Hello Tom,

              Of course this is pure speculation but since according to this web site, O-22 was submerged when she sank, the likelyhood that she hit a drifting mine is remote and since she did not operate in an area where there were moored mines then her loss is probably something else and an ordinary accident may be one option. An uncontrollable loss of trim, etc. Since the location of her wreck is consistent with the position she was ordered to reach on 13 November then German claims to her sinking which were made on an earlier date (such as UJ 177 on 8.11.1940) can be discounted.

              Regarding the ORZEL's wreck: if the pipeline follows the Jutland Coast then it is unlikely that it was the Polish submarine as she was supposed to be quite a way off. Her wreck is more likely to be located west or north of the German declared area (somewhere between 55°00 N/03°45 E and 57°00 N/06°00 E).

              Best regards,

              Platon

              "Tee-Kay" wrote: Platon Alexiades wrote: "...an accidental loss appears to be a distinct possibility probably in the evening of 13 November or later."

              "Forgive me if I don't get it correctly" but this sentence sounds quite like a "mystery" to me.... What do you mean as an accidental loss?

              Kind regards,
              Tom

              P.S. Regarding the video.... It would be great to see this wreck. I'm linking my and others (I guess) interest towards a video recorded also in 1993 by ROV on the North Sea. The person who was present when the movie was displayed "frame by frame" on a Norwegian vessel believes, it was the Polish ORP "Orzel". It would be interesting to check whether or not a "mistake" could be made...

              Reactie


              • #8
                Just placed the most important video fragments online. Among other things, you can identify the boat by her front diving rudders and the vertical tube in the back of the tower. This tube contains a small stairs, probably to reach the anti-aircraft gun which was placed in a second tube in front of it (also visible).

                Looks like the sub suffered extensive damage around the deck torpedotubes, just before the deck gun. The gun has completely disappeared.

                Strangely, the stern is heavily folded to port, probably on impact with the sea bottom. But when the forward section was damaged, why would she go down stern first...?

                Leon.

                p.s.: you need to sign in to downloa d the videos.
                Daily flogging will continue until the crew's morale improves...!

                Reactie


                • #9
                  O-22 Video

                  Great thanks for sharing the video clips!

                  Tom

                  Reactie


                  • #10
                    Hello Leon,

                    Many thanks for the video clips.

                    Platon

                    Reactie

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